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tv   The O Reilly Factor  FOX News  May 5, 2014 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT

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on. tonight: >> i don't think it makes sense for the democrats to participate. >> as the investigation into a white house benghazi coverup expands, why are democrats refusing to get involved? we'll tell you. >> there wasn't a conspiracy. they did not turn out to be accurate. >> well, how did it happen? >> i think that people made -- at the time, their best guess at the facts. >> where did the idea that the video had anything to do with benghazi come from? >> sparks fly between fox news brit hume and a former democratic congresswoman over benghazi's unanswered questions. brit will join us with reaction. >> world -- more believe in
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ghosts than racism. >> a stunning claim by kareem abdul jabbar. is there any truth to it? we have a factor investigation. >> i have been hearing that crap since i was at ucla: the factor begins right now. hi i'm laura ingraham in for bill o'reilly. thanks for watching us tonight. lapping toes not attack dogs. that describes the press, that is the subject of this evening's talking points memo. every year the president, the press, and a smattering of hollywood types they get together and they yuck it up at the white house correspondents dinner. tell jokes and clink glasses and now they pose for selfies. what used to be a one night affair though has turned into three days of nonstop cocktail parties, dinners
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and brunches. i have attended these dinners, for the most part they are overcrowded, overbehind and now i think they should be over with after all what are they really celebrating at this point? the fact that they have missed or underreported some of the biggest stories of the past 10 years? china is about to overtake our economy, america is in decline, the benghazi coverup. the irs used as a political weapon? that is just to name a few. correspondents and the president, whether republican or democrat really shouldn't be buddy buddy. reporters should be checking government power. not cheerleaders for one party or one point of view. and guy the way,aám1[ i really think president obama would have really been better off, too, if he had been forced to rise to the challenge of an aggressive press. instead, he was insulated by his media fan club,l$q& the total obamacare meltdown that is. where were all the questions about obamacare before last fall? why didn't they push for
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sebelius to be replaced early on? and why didn't they demand answers on the foot dragging investigation into benghazi? the fact is, for the past six years, most in the press have been in party mode. drunk on its abiding lo for the obama mass. but now the country is forced to suffer through the big hangover. and that's the memo. now on to the top story, the benghazi investigation expanding and democrats are running for the hills. today, speaker john boehner named trey gowdy a republican congressman from south carolina the head of the house select committee to investigate the benghazi attacks. before gowdy was even named. democrats were refusing to participate. >> i think it's a collosal waste of time. we have had four bipartisan investigations of this already. i don't think it makes sense really for democrats to participate. >> but, the release of the new benghazi memos last week shows just how many unanswered questions still
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remain. even so democrats keep trying to turn the tables on anyone looking for answers. including me. >> there is a very loud delusional minority that is driving our politics, that is in control of the republican party. there is no conspiracy here at all. >> what is happening here and it's stoked by the talk show. >> >> yous master its at this. >> and today white house spokesman jay carney said president obama was first alerted to the benghazi attack while meeting with then defense secretary leon panetta in the oval office. then he went on to imply that the question of whether the president was monitoring events through the night was silly. >> this is a conspiracy theory in search of a conspiracy. it is -- has clearly been that for so long now that i have lost track of the number of conspiracies that have fallen flat. >> joining us now from santa faye new mexico the state's former democratic governor bill richard shon a former u.s. ambassador to the u.n.
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energy secretary and great to see you, governor. so, there you have it. i mean, i guess i'm delusional. everyone is trying to peddle a conspiracy theories. look, you have been in the hot seat before in government. is this a legitimate inquiry given all those documents that were released after the initial request last summer? >> well, laura, i do think there is partisanship here. it's a bit of a witch-hunt. but the congress has investigatory. -- prerogative of the party in power. where i would disagree with my democratic friends is we should participate. it's usually six and six. six democrats, six republicans. this is going to be an inquiry that's going to last a year. i don't think there is any smoking gun. you know, that last memo was a little bit confusing to me because i had been supportive of the administration. i still am, that there is no conspiracy here. there was some problems,
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security. >> but, governor, they sold this narrative, that i know you are familiar with now, for weeks after their own state department, i'm sure you heard about that beth jones memo that from 9:45 a.m., the following morning, on september 12th, she was referring to on sar al cherie a al qaeda, no mention of video protests it was understood at the time, this is a terror attack. yet, they continued to peddle that narrative and they held those documents back, which i think, again, if this were the bush administration, the same kind of narrative, i would think all these same people crying conspiracy would say we need acouldn'tability here. >> well, i do think at the same time ambassador pickerring, a very respected diplomat did an inquiry that i read thoroughry. and, basically, i think the administration made some mistakes in terms of beefing up security of, perhaps, not responding faster.
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but at the same time, i don't see a conspiracy. this is, obviously, become a very political issue. you know, it keeps coming back. i do think it is a bit of a witch-hunt. >> what about when you say witch-hunt, but that's demeaning, governor. when you say witch-hunt, we have four dead americans. we have the utter humiliation and tragedy of a u.s. ambassador. you were the u.n. ambassador. we have a u.s. ambassador murdered in cold blood. we have no one in campus today. and we had an administration that immediately went political in the hours in the aftermath of these brutal murders of americans. that's a national humiliation that that would occur. beyond all the narrative about the protests. we don't even have anyone in custody for goodness sakes. >> well, but there was disciplinary action taken against several state department officials. there was saying -- >> -- was anybody fired? >> security was a problem be. >> nobody was fired? nobody is ever fired except
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kathleen sebelius was pushed out. van jones, maybe? >> they were moved out. i do think, laura, that while it's a legitimate function of the congress, and i think democrats should participate, it's going to be viewed as an attack on secretary clinton. it's going to be helpful to her politically. >> do you think she had any responsibility here? i mean, you didn't endorse her in 2008. i remember that controversy when you wouldn't endorse her because -- >> -- no, i don't. >> you didn't think she was the right person at the time for the job. >> i endorsed president obama and i stand by that but i don't think she was involved in any conspiracy. i think she was very candid. let's see what the select committee produces. i have my doubts. i don't think there is a smoking gun. i think it's going to be an advantage to the democrats. >> there might not be. there might not be. >> democrats do. i hope the democrats do participate though. >> hey, governor, you said back in 2007, when you were thinking about running, the presidential race, you said we needed ayw president with
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experience. right? someone to start the healing at home and abroad. now looking back on barack obama over the last six years, do you think he was the president with experience and the healing has taken place at home and abroad? >> i think he really has restored america's strength abroad. i think he has been a good foreign policy president. these are very difficult times. there is no question. but he has tried in the middle east. he has tried in ukraine. he is doing his best. this is a very difficult times for america abroad. >> governor richardson, thank you so much. and, next on the rundown, fox news brit hume confronts a former democratic congresswoman over the white house's soft benghazi talking points. talking points. brit had ♪
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in the impact segment tonight, was there a conspiracy to create false benghazi talking points. over of the weekend fox news brit hume had it out with jane harman about allegations of a coverup by the white house. >> it wasn't a conspiracy. and there aren't aliens in area 51. and vince foster wasn't murdered. and it's time to move on and focus on the real problems in libya. >> the question was whether in the aftermath of the attack, when the administration sent its u.n. ambassador out to explain it to everybody and she did so falsely, that there wasn't a conspiracy to create the false talking points that she used. >> there wasn't a conspiracy. they did not turn out to be accurate. >> how did it happen? >> i think that people made, at the time, their best guess at the facts. >> wait a minute, where did the idea that the video had anything to do with benghazi come from? >> where did it come from? >> yeah. i think it came from people who weren't sure about it. >> you can identify anybody?
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can you identify any cia information. >> the argument sounds an awful lot like the carney talking points we played earlier. with us now the aforementioned brit hume. had you a fun sunday, too. >> in a manner of speaking. although i still don't feel like i have the answer of the question. >> we don't know that yet. brit we don't know what the ticktock was what president obama did that night. >> we don't. we do know there was a bunch of administration notice the middle east, during the same period that this attack in benghazi happened. and it's conceivable that someone would have thought because there was talking of the video at those demonstrations in cairo and elsewhere that the same forces may have been in play in benghazi. but very quickly after that, it was pretty clearly revealed by everybody who was in a position to know, the intelligence agency, the people on the ground. people at the state department, that it was -- this was a terrorist attack.
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a planned terrorist attack. and was not related to the video. that was within 24 hours that was known. so, anybody who had that idea at the senior level in our government to include the president, to include secretary clinton, to include susan rice would have known that. and, yet, days later, here is susan rice on all those sunday talking shows famously expounding the theory that it all began, germinated with the internet video. >> the president goes on david letterman and references the protest and goes on theview. >> secretary clinton goes to dover and mentions it in her prepared remarks and is said to have mentioned it to the grieving relatives of one of those that was slain that they were going to get the person responsible for the video and the rest are of it. >> do you think there is a risk here for the republicans that sounds like i'm making it political. i remember whited water and everything that came out of white water and bill clinton is one ever of the most is one ever of the most beloved global politician. is there a risk that republicans forget the other issues out there percolating
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that effect americans' lives, like the economy and obviously foreign policy strife? america in decline, the rise of china? >> i don't think there is much danger that this issue is going to rise to the forefront that it will appear to the public that it is is the only thing on earth that the republican party is concerned with. >> democrats are going to say that though, right? >> of course they're. they will say things like that anyway. i think there is a greater danger of a bungled investigation with the -- >> -- that's what i fear. >> with the works gummed up by the fact that democrats don't participate or nearly obstruct. what's lacking here and what has been present in past investigations when you have had a bipartisan group seeking the facts is the kind of media atmosphere that gets players in both parties to the view that they better play or they will look bad. that's not happening here. i mean, we have had some media buy-in more recently with regard to the materials that have come out, the emails that have come out. by and large the media have
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not been interested in this story. they thought it peculiar that those segments of the media that were were doing it. >> isjllwí there any doubt after hearing plouffe call me delusional. carney experience. secretary richardson calling it could be a witch-hunt which i wouldn't have used could be going at hillary. that's the term he used. it's republicans who are just -- they are blood thirsty. get at hillary no matter. what going to make her more sympathetic. make her supporters rise to her i think it's incompetent at the bus stop. i think it could be not nefarious, take all their points there was no ill will. no bad faith. if it's no bad faith, it's shear incompetence at the very least. that's a huge issue for hillary, too. >> well, perhaps. but, look. what we're all looking at here is the thing that this had the scent of from the beginning a coverup. get-go it looked like a
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coverup. the story didn't fit the facts. it fit one thing, it fit the needs of the president up for re-election and of a secretary of state hoping to succeed him. >> and now we have a new election in the offing. >> there you go. >> and the central figure who is responsible for the security of these embassies. brit, it's great to see you as always. >> thank you, laura. >> directly ahead, will the new benghazi revelations prevent hillary clinton from running for president in 2016. juan williams will a honestly, the off-season isn't really off for me. i've got a lot to do. that's why i got my surface. it's great for watching game film and drawing up plays. it's got onenote, so i can stay on top of my to-do list, which has been absolutely absurd since the big game. with skype, it's just really easy to stay in touch with the kids i work with. alright, russell you are good to go! alright, fellas. alright, russ. back to work!
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performance review in a while. someone whose poor performance is slowing down the entire organization. i'm looking at you phone company dsl. check your speed. see how fast your internet can be. switch now and add voice and tv for $34.90. comcast business built for business. in the factor follow up seeing isment tonight, will the benghazi controversy keep hillary clinton from running for president in 2016? her response is secretary of state 2012 attacks is under fresh criticism. in the wake of the benghazi memos is it enough for her to rethink a presidential
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run? here to analyze fox news contributor juan williams. i mean, juan, what's your take? could there be anything that she is worried about that could come out in this select committee investigation? that she hasn't doesn't want to deal with on áyub campaign trail? >> i don't think thee wants to deal with the whole issue. i think everybody on the democratic sighted, wishes it would go away to some extent. in terms of the damage, which i think is the hard heart of the question, laura. so far we don't have anything that would indicate there is any damage to hillary clinton. i do think that with the formation of the select committee today, what you are getting at here is the opportunity to subpoena hillary clinton, bring her back before the congress. attempt to somehow get something more out of her. even if you don't get something, what you are doing is putting the spotlight back on a potential flaw in her resume and saying hey, aren't you responsible? i think that's what republicans are are doing. if there is a conspiracy here, i guess it's a conspiracy of hating on hillary by republicans. that's it. >> you know, i was thinking about this. let's say everything they
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said about this, at face value was good faith, maybe some mistakes were made but it was all done in good faith. then i think you can also make the argument, right? i think a common sense one that this could be incompetence we are dealing with at the state department. i mean, the fact that we still have nobody in custody, the fact that we have an arrest warrant out we could have intervened earlier to talk to the main figure whoy>0 named in the arrest warrant. we haven't been able to do that reporters have sat down and had coffee with him. beyond the nefarious there is a conspiracy. was hillary clinton really a successful secretary of state? that's successor in there for good measure, too. was she really successful at her job? including on the benghazi scandal? >> i think that obviously you could point to things like the end of the two wars. you can talk about. >> we have 30,000 troops in afghanistan, bill. >> clearly we are in a drawdown situation there we are out of iraq. can you talk about all these things even her, you know, great travel record. i mean, she traveled the globe. >> i love that that's a big
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-- >> -- that's the biggest claim they have got. >> i traveled a lot. frequent flier. elect me as president. that seemed ludicrous. she traveled a lot. >> she was a terrific ambassador for the united states of america. she world known figure. >> so is angelina jolie and she has done great work for the u.n. and her humanitarian work. >> now we are back to hating on hillary here. >> this is holding her to the same objective standard we would try to hold any secretary of state to. and i have had a lot of criticism to condoleezza rice. for secretary of state clibility is the world calmer? is america stronger? is our foreign policy clearer? i would say across the board, no, no, no, and oh, by the way, no. >> oh, no, i would say yes. >> clearer? where is our foreign policy clearer? >> no, no. no it's not that our foreign policy is somehow clearer. you have to understand what we're dealing with is a highly complex world. i would even point, to you know, the moment russia and say was it worth the effort to try to re-set and to try
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to -- >> -- how did that reset work out there, juan? >> i'm just telling you. what i'm saying to you, it was worth the effort, laura. i think it would have been a mistake not to try. >> we didn't even get the translation on the button right. >> this is what i am talking about. you are now off into what about her record? what about this? what about that? >> should she not be judged on her record, juan or just her celebrity? she is a celebrity and travels a lot. >> you are revealing to me that republicans read polls. you see hillary clinton beats every potential republican candidate by far. >> i'm with you on that. >> yeah, yeah. i think that's what's going on here. >> i'm talking about just whether america is stronger or weaker after her term as secretary of state on the foreign policy level. actually not responsible for the economy. but she is responsible for our foreign policy and working with the president. obviously she is taking orders from the president, too. >> right. i would submit just in judging her record, there is not a lot to point to. she is a celebrity and i think people like her and i think she seems like a nice person and people like her and she has traveled a lot.
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but what else? >> oh. no. >> what the heck has she accomplished. >> i don't think she is insubstantial person. >> i didn't say she was insubstantial. i say her record as secretary of state is chaos in the world. the world is more chaotic now. >> you think -- >> -- america is weaker. >> you think she started the -- >> -- handling. >> vladimir, go act crazy act like a dictator. >> mubarak could have been one of the stupidest things. dumped someone problematic american ally. we have kay informs in part because of what we did with this fanciful notion that the arab spring was going to turn into this everybody has democracy, meanwhile all these christians murdered on a daily basis. we have had the ability to generate allies and alliances that help us in libya. we have had the opportunity to work with people in the middle east and work with people around the world. and, again, i think hillary clinton played a key role. if you are asking bottom line, okay, i don't see any great results if that's your point. >> okay, i will take that.
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>> there you go. >> hillary is beating the republicans we agree on that and that okay, juan, great to see you as always. we're matching too. left wing intolerance reaching a new low as a student uprising causes former secretary of state condoleezzacr[ug rice to back ot of a commencement address at rutgers university. one of the leaders of the anti-rice campaign will enter the no spin zone moments away. sfx: car unlock beep. vo: david's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today his doctor has him on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen.
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grf paragraph in the personal story segment tonight, left wing intolerance and condoleezza rice. the former secretary of state backed out of giving this year's commencement address at rutgers university in new jersey. some students and professors had waged a fierce campaign to get her speech cancelled citing her role in the bush administration and the iraq war. because you lied thousands died. [chanting] hey hey, ho ho, condoleezza rice has got to go. >> when you think of a commencement speaker you think of someone you can look up to. this woman has committed so many crimes she has not even been put to trial. how can we look up to someone who is responsible for the death of so many. >> in a statement announcing her withdrawal, rice said, quote: i understand and embrace the purpose of the commencement ceremony and i am simply unwilling to detract from it0]12ñ in any way. joining us now from new york is carmelo sentron.
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rutgers. no rice campaign. are you celebrating today? you get like party favors and six pack of diet coke or how are you celebrating. >> not really. we are not celebrating. we are regrouping and reconcentrating our efforts to keep on educating the community about why this issue arose and how everything came to be and why this has happened this way. also, before we continue, i would like to make a little bit of a declaration. we are not a left wing group. we are nonpartisan political group. we have left, right wing, we have a lot of ethnicity. we are diverse group. >> there lot of right wing speaking on campus and who are those people. >> there are quite a few. of course i have to admit and say that let's say maybe the main right wing group, the college republicans are in favor of her speaking in college. >> they were in favor of her
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speaking. look, you represent a small minority of students and you have a right to speak out and make any point of view you want on any issue. and i celebrate the first amendment. commencements. i had so sit through tons of liberal commencement speakers. friends, graduations, my own graduation from dartmouth. going to law school. it's mostly liberal speakers at college commencements or people who are not political. it's very rare to have a really staunch conservative speaker, certainly tea party people like social conservatives pro-life people. pro-traditional marriage. they are not going to speak at most college campuses. so i think it's just -- it's okay, i listen to people i disagree with and i listen and maybe i learn something. maybe i am kind of wow, okay. i didn't think of an issue that way. i don't think there is a big threat to my person hood or to any of the principle of understanding because a person speaks with whom i disagree. i think that's what university settings are
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suppose to be about. your response? >> i completely agree with you, and that sends, laura, i'm completely in favor of people from every side of -- from every political wing to speak at commencements and to present their point of view. that's what we are protesting, what we are against is not her free speech. we are not against her gender. we are not against her race. we are not against her free speech. we are against her actions. it's different to be a conservative. >> so write an op ed, why do you have to stop her from speaking. she graciously withdrew because she cared more about the students at the university not having, i guess people screaming. i don't know what would you have done when she spoke? would have you screamed? would you have -- >> -- no. >> worn blood on yourrñk+ commencement gown? i mean, what would you have done? >> first of all, that's great that she was doing it such a gracious way. that's a great political way. you think she is a war criminal? >> yeah, i do. she could have deny this differently. she did it in a very nice way. we are grateful for that,
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too. we, of course, as a group, we are discussing actions for commencement and nothing involves anything, anything. he we are discarding anything that involves breaking, you know, our silence. it was just going to be something silent. >> what about barack obama? would you be okay with barack obama? >> oh, no. >> coming in and giving a speech. >> not at all. this came up in our meetings, barack obama because we knew that people would try to bring it it up as backlash. under barack obama we have much more drone attack than we had under the bush administration they are all being authorized. >> i'm going to go down the list. how about al sharpton would he be okay to speak. >> i'm here in representation of a whole group with a lot of ideas. and one thing that we have have been stressing and focusing on is not putting out names of who we would like or who we wouldn't like because you are acting as judge, jury and executioner. executioner getting the honorary degree and taking the commencement speaker away from someone.
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you said someone with a tainted record as a public servant shouldn't speak. well, tainted according to whom? she has never been brought to trial as a war criminal. that's patently absurd. that's your point of view. but you're actually judging her in a way that has not been done in accordance to any international law. you are just making a pronouncement. that's fine, that's within your right. but then you deprive the entire student body, carmelo, of an opportunity to hear someone who is really accomplished. really nice woman. and someone who is actually, by the -- in the scope of things, not all that conservative. i mean, she is kind of a middle of the road conservative. go ahead, close out. >> what we are trying to do here is to start holding accountable a lot of people from our different administrations. >> from rutgers. >> being held accountable before. this is part of it this is part of the reason why she has never been on trial. part of the reason why. she clearly violated international war conventions. clearly was one to authorize torture and enhanced interrogation and all of
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that. not only to iraqis but also to american people. >> i think what torture is hearing really bad graduation speakers and she probably would have been a really good one. >> maybe yes but a war criminal cannot receive money from our college. >> i would like it see who makes that list. and don't forget bill and dennis plirl will be bringing their boulder fresher tour to n. honolulu this week. tickets still available go to bill o' for more details. also perfect for father's day if you sign up for bill o' premium membership you will get one of bill's books and a pen and tote for free. be sure to check that out. on deck, kareem abdul jabbar facing off on the donald sterling race controversy. he says some pretty provocative things. we hope you stay tuned to those reports. if there was a pill
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that's why we don't have -- that's why we have shows like ghostbusters and don't have shows like racist busters. >> well the fact checkers at the tampa bay times looked into that claim and decided it's not quite right saying, quote: while we don't know what research he was citing to support his point, abdul jabbar's claim is a stretch based on the polls we found and pollsters we consulted. that said, a 2008 gallup poll found that blacks think racism is more widespread than whites. joining us now from miami, civil rights attorney and del brown and from new york fox contributed tore deneen borelli. he was trying to make a point i think and maybe he overstated a bit. that whites and blacks have a different view of race in america. and for the most part blacks still think the system is at times unfair and discriminatory. and i think more whites think, look, we all have it pretty tough and things are better than they have ever been.
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what's your reaction to his characterization? >> i think his characterization was to help move the dialogue forward to. help discuss race regions -- relations in america and served its purpose to a t. he wanted to make sure that we knew there is a problem with racism in this country and we have to address it we can't ignore it. >> deneen, we have had five years of barack obama going into the fifth year here. and 11.2% black unemployment. you have a growing percentage of black americans out of the workforce all together.?[d+ almost record numbers. obviously we?dbç5=] the problem with the breakdown in all walks of life are racist to. me that's the real outrage here is that economic.!$e opportunity isn't there for people hardest hit black americans and latino americans. >> no. you are absolutely right, laura. those numbers are staggering. but when you listen to kareem abdula(tl jabbar's
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comments, his comments are very divisive and it's the same rhetoric that we hear from jesse jackson, al sharpton and desperate politicians like charles rangle. they play the race card. listen, the facts we main that america is an exceptional country. i would never say there aren't rasms racists in america but it's a small number that number cannot prevent black individuals from striving from achieving. look at corporate america. look at politicians, look at entertainment and sports. you work hard, you apply yourself, you're successful. lying the race card, i think is, very divisive and this is the worst tactic to play. especially in this day and time with high unemployment record numbers. >> i would say on that, a lot of kids look up to folks like abdul jabbar and they hear that i bet, and they think gosh, why bother? it's going to be harder to make it these white people don't like me.
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they think this is all a myth. i see deneen's point. i think there is a difference in the way people look at races for sure. i don't think that moves the dialogue. i think what it does is makes the dialogue go like this. i think people move farther apart instead of look, what works? personal responsibility. staying together as a family. getting married before you have kids. those things work. support people from all races to make all the right >> laura, i didn't believe that kareem's staples are -- statements are somehow directing us away from personal responsibility. if you look at kareem's life and what he has accomplished he has responsible for himself, empowering yourself, setting goals and reaching them. his statements taken in total are saying that we have a race issue in america that we cannot turn away from. >> what's the bigger problem facing black people today. we have been talking about race. with all due respect, we have been talking about race for decades and decades and decades, we have had workshops, sit-ins,
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symposiums, hour long day long specials on television. the problem facing the black community is an economic one, it's a family one. i think those problems are much deeper today, not 50 years ago but today. those are the things holding back some americans, including black americans, but not just black americans, all of us, i think. deneen, go ahead. >> when we look at the totality of she addresses those things. >> one at a time, guys. >> got the midterm elections coming. you have the senate that the democrats are afraid of losing. we are going to it hear more and more race card rhetoric as we get closer to the election. that is what i think is happening right now. and this doesn't move the needle in any way, shape, or form, it divides america and it's the last thing we need to be doing. >> thanks so much, deneen and andell, when we come back, the supreme court rules against the group that tried to get prayers banned at townr=> meetings. they will be here to respond. the day we rescued riley,
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in the back of the book segment tonight, prayer in town meetings. in a 5-4 decision today, the supreme courtsát rejected claims that public prayer at town meetings violates the constitution. a group had fought to get prayers banned from the opening of a monthly town meeting in greece, new york and they argued that those meetings violated the separation of church and state when started by a prayer. here is an example of what they took issue with. >> i believe that the.rhv greatest shepard leader ever was jesus christ who gave of himself on the cross. it is my prayer this evening that everyone here in any sort of leadership position, whether a politician, a parent, or even a pastor would lead according to the example of shepard leadership the greatest shepard himself, jesus christ. in his name i pray.
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>> joining us now with reaction is iesha khan the legal director for americans united for the separation of church and state and she was one of the attorneys who brought the case against greece, new york to the supreme court. well, iesha, that's a loss a-4. i clerk up at the court and these things can go either way. what's your take? how did the court get it wrong? we are disappointing in the ruling. the court got it wrong wrong? >> we are disappointed in the ruling because it allows local governmental bodies to condition citizens' participation in meetings. >> how are they conditioning the participation in the meeting? >> well -- >> you can still attend the meet figure you don't participate in the prayer. >> you can atepid the meetings but every aspect of these meetings involves town citizens. they come to petition the board for zoning variances, for the board to make particular decisions affecting their lives. these meetings are very unlike
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state and federal legislatures where citizens at most view from a gallery and are not there to petition their government. >> let me just understand your argument. your argument is when citizens go to these town meetings and this prayer, we heard a version of it in that clip, that prayer is said that those citizens would not get the proper redress or their grievances wouldn't be heard or this establishes an actual religion, they would be forced to convert to christianity. i'm trying to get your point. i have to confess that i think your argument is loopy. >> put yourself inh5í the posi of a child who comes to receive an award at a town board meeting or to be recognized. you're a jewish child, and what you're asked to do, you're 12, and what you're asked to do before you receive your award in full view of the board members to stand and bow your head in
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recognition of the divinity of jesus christ. >> you're not made to do that. you keep saying they are coerced into prayer and when i hear that, no one is coerced into prayer. the prayer is said, the prayer opens congress every day, the president prayed at his inauguration. george washington led his troops in battle in prayer. abraham lincoln's famously citing god throughout his presidency asking god for help and guidance. that would all violate your understanding of the first amendment because the soldiers in battle have to listen to their commander-in-chief. do they not? >> you are doing what the court did was to ignore the facts. that's the problem is that the establishment clause exists precisely not to allow the majority to rule -- >> establishing a religion, the country is more diverse than ever.
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more people who are atheists, nonbelievers, hin due, but thato these prayers are going to unmask and convert people, the country as a whole refutes your whole argument. >> for nine years there was not a single nonchristian. and that is what's wrong here. we are an increasingly diverse country. the beauty of the country is p r(t&háhp &hc% >> let's be honest here. you won't be happy until we take in god we trust off the coin. >> that is not -- >> if you had your wish list. it's never going to happen. but if you could, you would take it off the coin. >> our opponents could, they would make it so people could be browbeaten into submission until they participate in these prayers and have their zoning varianc variances denied. >> you truly believe these people at these town meetings
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that they want to establish a theocracy? >> i think that's exactly what's happened here. it's a disregard for religious minorities in this community. they have taken no steps to diversify their prayer givers. they have not asked them to be inclusive like countless municipalities. even like the congress does. >> there are a lot of people that are religious including christians and jews who are ready to just feed out from society because they think the modern culture is hostile to them. they are basically just stepping back from the culture. they won't be in certain jobs anymore, not going to movies because they think the dominant culture is an attack on christianity or traditional religious thoughts. that's the opposite point of view, but i appreciate you coming on. >> happy to be here. up next, we may have finally found the one thing politicians
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♪ ♪ i couldn't lay down it was a i couldn't sit up because it burned so ch. as first ladof our church we have meetings. we have activities. and i couldn't do any of that. any time anythg brushed up against thisash it would seelike it would set it on fire again. it was the worst pain i ever had.
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before we go tonight, bill loves to share his tips on how to sleep better. but there's one thing that may put people to sleep faster than anything else. hbo's last week tonight with john oliver apparently found it. >> and now people falling asleep behind politicians. >> understand the success in life won't be determined just by what's given to you or what happens to you. >> there's no one that can outcompete us. there's no country in the world that can outcompete us. >> our allies are so much less willing to trust us. >> we need to make sure that the american people are given just a fighting chance. >> we must do these things together as one nation, one
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people. >> japan is going to overtake the united states of america. >> the common refrain is more care and less rick. but i'm working on it. >> and there are folks on the left who do the same thing. trying to be provocative saying the nastiest things about the other side. >> the social problems they have to deal with are incomprehensible. >> e we stand for freedom and hope and opportunity. >> i know that you can do it. after all, we are the educational giant here and there's nothing you can't do. >> and that's it for us tonight. be sure to checkous laurainn also follow me on twitter. thanks for watching.
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